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So what's the deal with Mac Messenger?

Several people have now asked about Mac Messenger. More specifically, they’ve given a list of feature requests with A/V at the top. So, why don’t we have it? When will we get it?
Mac Messenger is a product in active development (yes, really!) so I can’t answer either of those two questions directly. I’ve been able to share a lot of MacBU’s back story because that’s all about work done in the past, not about work currently being done or future work in planning. However, for the same reasons that I don’t share feature lists for the next version of Mac Office, I won’t do it for Mac Messenger either.
That said, I can give you all a little bit of insight. Here’s what I’d like you to know: The MacBU is a medium-sized group at Microsoft (at least from my perspective) but compared to either the Win Office team or the various incarnations of the Messenger app on the Windows platform, we’re actually pretty small. The MacBU has a grand total of 52 developers (including leads and managers). A quick query across Win Office shows roughly 550 developers, meaning they are over 10x larger than we are. Yet they own only Office; we own and produce Office, Messenger, RDC and Virtual PC. Because these products are mostly in active development simultaneously, we spread our 50+ developers across these products and thus have relatively small teams. To make our numbers feel even smaller, we’re often doing maintainence work (or even feature work!) on older releases of our software. Did you notice that we have released two service packs for Office 2004, and that both of them had some very large features in them?
So, to the case in point: Messenger. Our Messenger team currently has a total of three developers working on it, plus one open headcount. The average size of the team has remained pretty constant at 4 or 5 developers for the past several years. With such a small team, we have to make tough decisions for each release as to which major features to include, and which ones to cut. For the latest major release (v5) the major feature add was Corporate communications, to tie into the LCS architecture.
Separately, the MacBU has to consider cross-platform compatibility. Just as one of the main selling points for Mac Office is the degree to which it is compatible with Win Office, Mac Messenger must remain compatible with Win Messenger. This means we have to use the same codec as they do, speak the same chat protocol, etc. Perhaps we could add some easy QuickTime video codec and hook up with iChat’s protocol, but that doesn’t help us talk A/V to all the Win Messenger users out there. Porting the Win Messenger codecs and protocols is probably a lot of work (I don’t know how much, or how many people it might take, or how long) but I’m willing to bet it would be a significant investment and large proportion of the available dev time for our small team.
Of course, we could pull other devs off of their other projects and put them onto Messenger, but that has its own problems. The MacBU’s income that it contributes to Microsoft as a whole comes largely from its two main products, Mac Office and Virtual PC. Messenger is given out freely, and any return on that investment comes primarily from the value add it brings to the Office suite and for its compatibility with Win Messenger. We have to seriously weigh the ramifications of the loss of our primary revenue stream. Ok, so that sounds like I’m a corporate shill, but it’s the financial truth of any business, no matter how large or small. If I run a little espresso stand, I’ve got to keep making coffee drinks, no matter how cool it might be to add something like a free valet parking service, right?
My impression (and I may very well be wrong) is that the comments I’ve received about Messenger have been from people wanting to use it for personal use, as opposed to inside a corporate network. As such, I guess that the corporate chat feature is largely useless to you. Since I don’t work on Messenger, I don’t know all the details of why that particular feature won out and others didn’t, but I’m sure the team (devs plus program managers and testers) all had to make some very hard choices. Our choices obviously did not satisfy Matt, priit, or Nik. How does that quote go? “You can please some people some of the time, but you can’t please everybody all of the time,” or something like that.
As for audio and video, believe me, we know how much you want it. We hear about it all the time and we’ve certainly heard the howls of anger coming from the various public forums on places like Ars Technica and MacNN each time we’ve released a version without A/V. Perhaps we’ll get a version with it someday. Perhaps even soon. For now, you’ll just have to wait and see if we surprise you.
I know that’s not the answer you were looking for, but that is the honest truth.
Hey, if you want to help us make a version with A/V and you’ve got the right L33t Mac Skillz, you could always apply for a job in the MacBU.
/me ducks and hides…

10 replies on “So what's the deal with Mac Messenger?”

Thanks for the honest response. I’m sure you get the A/V question shot at you every 5 seconds, so thanks for taking the time to respond – I understand the obvious considerations that have to be made when it comes to a product like Mac Messenger, even more so now 🙂
Regards,
Nik

Thanks for the response.
Well, I will be waiting as long as A/V comes into Mac:Messenger (because, it’s a great app). While waiting, I will continue to use Mercury Messenger 🙁
Keep up the great work,
Matt

Btw, it’s really a good thing to be able to ask questions to a developer of the MacBU and to have answers. Thank you for that.

So this is really, really not anti-MS trolling, and thanks for the interesting blog, but I’m just so puzzled.
Why did the original MSN team have to re-invent the wheel to put video into MSN Messenger? Microsoft already made a standards-compliant videoconferencing program called NetMeeting. (It was in Win95 or 98, and It’s still there through XP, but apparently is blocked in Vista.) It uses h.323, which is what every other videoconferencing solution uses, and there’s a fantastic open Mac client for that protocol and everything (XMeeting).
So if MS had just used *its own* NetMeeting protocol as the, or even *one of*, the supported protocols for MSN Messenger, this wouldn’t be a problem for the Mac Messenger team at all. It’s only because MSN had to create a new closed standard that there’s any porting work to do, and no possibility of Mac users using a third-party MSN client (Adium, Fire …) to get on the MS A/V bandwagon.

See, for my company, the lack of full support for cross platform AV is why we DON’T use LCS. Okay, so 600+ CALs isn’t a lot, but there’s no way I’m going to be able to recommend an IM service that’s crippled in such an essential way.
That’s the reason we’re looking at other systems…we need full support for all clients, not just windows.

I work in New Jersey at the UPS IS headquarters, and I’d just like to add that at UPS, as I’m sure is the case with any other large corporation, we have a strict standards committee in place delineating which software we can use with what and how such and such must communicate with this and that. Cross-platform interoperability, as I see it, shouldn’t be a primary concern for applications on a corporate level. While I do own a Powerbook and would love to use the corporate features of Mac Messenger at work — I just can’t. It’s not allowed, namely for security reasons. A corporation will make these decisions early on. Think, also, of the production costs that would need to be added if all corporate applications were to be tested and supported on various platforms, and new components developed in the same fashion. It costs too much and it’s just way too much trouble.
My point is that most corporations, internally, have a fixed platform. I don’t see the significance in continuing development of Corporate Mac Messenger features.

Hi,
I’ve been waiting for quiet a while now to know if my idea is any good.
Please respond if it’s of any value:
With MSN Messenger 8(Windows), start using a newer codec f.i H.263 or H.323, that can be used with a new protocol to communicate with both the next Mac and Win versions of Messenger.
I guess it wouldn’t hurt either Windows or Mac-versions if this idea was used and I don’t think you would need to do most of the work, but the Windows department instead.
If you think this sounds good, please talk it over with the people in charge and maybe it’ll help regaining the proper status of appreciation that you guys at the Mac-department deserve. 🙂
//Jari K

You do know that aMSN for OS X (and Linux) already have ported the video codecs (and the animated smileys)? The application seems to have a total of 18 active developers & managers (though I don’t know who did the codecs) and it is also open source (though under the GPL license, so I guess you can’t use it).
If you spend some time on their Sourceforge website, I bet you can draw up a pretty good plan for how many of your developers and how long time it would take to implement the A/V features (then cut that time in half, because you don’t have to reverse engineer anything).
Also, you don’t give out MSN Messenger for free. You make us watch various advertisments when we use it, so you make money of it! And I’d be very suprised if a large corporate firewall let those advertisments through (where I worked, IBM handled the firewall and they sure as hell didn’t let Messenger in, only the Sametime Connect from Lotus Notes). No, us average consumers are the main users, and you make money off us using the ads!

I forgot to say that I recently read this as well:
http://share.skype.com/sites/mac/2006/06/skype_for_mac_with_video_comin.html
So soon, nobody is going to want to use A/V from Messenger anyway, since the quality of audio sucks compared to Skype, and hopefully, they will be able to deliver on the video as well.
So, the redeeming feature for Messenger seems to be its animated smileys, which teens and others love to collect and show off (I know my girlfriend and all her friends do it, it’s apparently huge in Asia). How hard would animated smileys be to implement? (Oh, and I bet corporate bigwigs would get a kick out of sending an animated “YOU’RE FIRED!” smiley to employees…)

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